MM Lee Interview with UPI (Feb 2)
The transcript
US Election
Mr Lee: “Who will win? Hillary or Obama?”
Q: “I think Obama.”
Mr Lee: “You think so? Hillary has the resources and the networks.”
Q: “Yes, but he’s coming on very strong, sir. He’s very good, he’s got a beautiful manipulation of the English language, which helps. We haven’t had someone like that for a long time and I think more and more people are…”
Mr Lee: “But the momentum is coming too late for him, isn’t it?”
Q: “You think so, sir?”
Mr Lee: “You’ve got Super Tuesday on the 5th, that’s only three days off. If he can’t pull that one off, well, there are many delegates behind, especially California and New York.”
Q: “You favour Hillary, don’t you?”
Mr Lee: “I feel safer. I’ve watched him on television, but I’m a bit scared when he says ‘We’ll get out of Iraq’ just like that and he can’t get out of it, you know.”
Mr Lee: “I think the Chinese have come to the conclusion that if they stay on course, peaceful rise, don’t try any areas of influence, don’t challenge any existing power, whether it’s America or Western Europe, just make friends with everybody, including the Japanese, the Russians, the Indians, everybody out there, given the rules of the game now that they are in WTO, they can only go stronger and stronger, year by year, decade by decade and within three, four decades, their GNP will be equal to America, not per capita. Their technology will be half of America and another 30, 40, 50 years, their GNP would be bigger than America and their technology may not be far away from America because they have seen -- and they have studied in detail, Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore -- and Deng Xiaoping opened up in 1978 -- he had been here -- and he was amazed because his briefing did not tally with what he saw. So, he decided -- he must have been thinking this a long time already -- the communist system did not work -- and he saw this tiny little place with all the goods in the shops, such a high quality of living, garments, et cetera and with exploiting European and American and Japanese capitalists having factories all over. He said, …(indistinct)… we can do that too. So, he went back and tried these special economic zones, about 12 of them, around the coastal cities and leased the communes back to the farmers. It worked.
“I think they have concluded that Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore advanced because they had the advantage of connections to the West, access to technology, export markets, knowledge, capital and an educated workforce. Okay. They’ve got a better workforce, they can be better educated. They’ve got more bright people. They are now in WTO. They are sending 250,000 students every year abroad. All right, 60 per cent, 70 per cent don’t come back. It does not matter, they will come back eventually and year by year, they are closing the gap. So, they worked out this theory of peaceful rise. They have… I don’t know if you watched this or heard of this series, The Rise of the Great Powers, which they did.”
Mr Lee: “Oh, yes. It will be a different world by 2050. Even by 2030, you cannot intervene in Taiwan. It is too costly. In fact, the CINCPAC Commander, Admiral Moore, has already said, you know, you have got all these forces, designed to knock out my Seventh Fleet, my aircraft carrier battle group. And that’s what they are after. Don’t intervene. If Taiwan declares itself independence, I have already passed this law, anti-secession, I have to move and I will stop him, but we are quite happy to leave it as it is. That’s, indeed, it is in their own interest to leave as it is. Taiwanese go to America, get technology, built up Taiwan, then old technology goes to China. You take back Taiwan, they become Chinese, access to US labs cut off. So, they are quite smart.”
Singapore's Brain's Drain
Mr Lee: “China, they’ll come back. You want to be Chinese or do you want to be Singaporean. You go to China, you’re going to compete against 1,300 million very bright fellows, hardworking, starving. Do you stand a chance to be on top of that pole? No, but if you go there as Singaporean with a different base, speaking English which they can’t, with connections to the world, then you’ve got a different platform. What happens is they go to America, Americans then collect them, the bright ones. You stay for two, three years in their companies, acclimatize them to the company culture and take them to China, if they speak Chinese. So, they’re part of the American team. Now, if they are working in China, I think they’ll come back because they don’t want their children to compete against Chinese. But if they decide to take the Green Card and settle in America, then I think we’ve lost them and they are going to America and those who don’t want the hard competition here go to Australia and Canada.”
Q: “You have percentages on that, sir?”
Mr Lee: “We’re losing about… According to the people who give up their citizenship and take out their savings, their pension funds, we’re losing about, at the top end, 1,000 a year, which is about, if you take the top 30 per cent of the population, thereabout four or five per cent. It will grow because I think the numbers are growing. Every year, there are more people going abroad for their either first degree or second degree or whatever. But we’re making up by getting many bright Chinese and Indians coming here because of better prospects, learn English, you can learn Chinese at the same time and so on and the Indians are near home, First-World standards as against Indian infrastructure. The trouble is many of the Chinese then use us as a stepping stone to go to America where the grass is greener. But even if we only keep 30 to 40 per cent and we lose 60 to 70 per cent, we’re a net gainer. But the day will come, maybe 20 years, maybe 30 years, when Chinese say, look, my life is better than yours or as good.”
US Election
Mr Lee: “Who will win? Hillary or Obama?”
Q: “I think Obama.”
Mr Lee: “You think so? Hillary has the resources and the networks.”
Q: “Yes, but he’s coming on very strong, sir. He’s very good, he’s got a beautiful manipulation of the English language, which helps. We haven’t had someone like that for a long time and I think more and more people are…”
Mr Lee: “But the momentum is coming too late for him, isn’t it?”
Q: “You think so, sir?”
Mr Lee: “You’ve got Super Tuesday on the 5th, that’s only three days off. If he can’t pull that one off, well, there are many delegates behind, especially California and New York.”
Q: “You favour Hillary, don’t you?”
Mr Lee: “I feel safer. I’ve watched him on television, but I’m a bit scared when he says ‘We’ll get out of Iraq’ just like that and he can’t get out of it, you know.”
Where China Heading
Mr Lee: “I think the Chinese have come to the conclusion that if they stay on course, peaceful rise, don’t try any areas of influence, don’t challenge any existing power, whether it’s America or Western Europe, just make friends with everybody, including the Japanese, the Russians, the Indians, everybody out there, given the rules of the game now that they are in WTO, they can only go stronger and stronger, year by year, decade by decade and within three, four decades, their GNP will be equal to America, not per capita. Their technology will be half of America and another 30, 40, 50 years, their GNP would be bigger than America and their technology may not be far away from America because they have seen -- and they have studied in detail, Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore -- and Deng Xiaoping opened up in 1978 -- he had been here -- and he was amazed because his briefing did not tally with what he saw. So, he decided -- he must have been thinking this a long time already -- the communist system did not work -- and he saw this tiny little place with all the goods in the shops, such a high quality of living, garments, et cetera and with exploiting European and American and Japanese capitalists having factories all over. He said, …(indistinct)… we can do that too. So, he went back and tried these special economic zones, about 12 of them, around the coastal cities and leased the communes back to the farmers. It worked.
“I think they have concluded that Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore advanced because they had the advantage of connections to the West, access to technology, export markets, knowledge, capital and an educated workforce. Okay. They’ve got a better workforce, they can be better educated. They’ve got more bright people. They are now in WTO. They are sending 250,000 students every year abroad. All right, 60 per cent, 70 per cent don’t come back. It does not matter, they will come back eventually and year by year, they are closing the gap. So, they worked out this theory of peaceful rise. They have… I don’t know if you watched this or heard of this series, The Rise of the Great Powers, which they did.”
Mr Lee: “Oh, yes. It will be a different world by 2050. Even by 2030, you cannot intervene in Taiwan. It is too costly. In fact, the CINCPAC Commander, Admiral Moore, has already said, you know, you have got all these forces, designed to knock out my Seventh Fleet, my aircraft carrier battle group. And that’s what they are after. Don’t intervene. If Taiwan declares itself independence, I have already passed this law, anti-secession, I have to move and I will stop him, but we are quite happy to leave it as it is. That’s, indeed, it is in their own interest to leave as it is. Taiwanese go to America, get technology, built up Taiwan, then old technology goes to China. You take back Taiwan, they become Chinese, access to US labs cut off. So, they are quite smart.”
Singapore's Brain's Drain
Mr Lee: “China, they’ll come back. You want to be Chinese or do you want to be Singaporean. You go to China, you’re going to compete against 1,300 million very bright fellows, hardworking, starving. Do you stand a chance to be on top of that pole? No, but if you go there as Singaporean with a different base, speaking English which they can’t, with connections to the world, then you’ve got a different platform. What happens is they go to America, Americans then collect them, the bright ones. You stay for two, three years in their companies, acclimatize them to the company culture and take them to China, if they speak Chinese. So, they’re part of the American team. Now, if they are working in China, I think they’ll come back because they don’t want their children to compete against Chinese. But if they decide to take the Green Card and settle in America, then I think we’ve lost them and they are going to America and those who don’t want the hard competition here go to Australia and Canada.”
Q: “You have percentages on that, sir?”
Mr Lee: “We’re losing about… According to the people who give up their citizenship and take out their savings, their pension funds, we’re losing about, at the top end, 1,000 a year, which is about, if you take the top 30 per cent of the population, thereabout four or five per cent. It will grow because I think the numbers are growing. Every year, there are more people going abroad for their either first degree or second degree or whatever. But we’re making up by getting many bright Chinese and Indians coming here because of better prospects, learn English, you can learn Chinese at the same time and so on and the Indians are near home, First-World standards as against Indian infrastructure. The trouble is many of the Chinese then use us as a stepping stone to go to America where the grass is greener. But even if we only keep 30 to 40 per cent and we lose 60 to 70 per cent, we’re a net gainer. But the day will come, maybe 20 years, maybe 30 years, when Chinese say, look, my life is better than yours or as good.”
